SO.........There I go thinking again about this one little verse of scripture where Jesus asks the Father to forgive them for they know not what they do. Hmmmmm? Who are them in scripture? Well, those who hammered the nails, kicked, spat, mocked,scorned, cursed and denied Him in any way possible and stripped Him naked, for the most part every unbeliever...and everyone else who would ever be in this world. Now I am pretty simple minded and a bit of a skeptic,but I cannot overlook the fact that, in traditional X-ian point of view the Father would have had to deny and diregard Jesus' request in order to provide an everlating punishment for those who had an inability to choose Him through their clouded perceptions, that Christ clearly understood and asked for forgiveness for on their behalf.
So is the the traditional view, a message of God ignoring Christ's prayer request as He is dying to forgive them? Sorry request Denied???? Really? Is the God we grovel before all our lives hoping that he will accept our sorry, insignificant plight by begging Him to accept our acceptance of His beloved sons work, and only if we have some measurable form of fruit within our existence?
Was Jesus ignorant of God's plan for those who would never have a relationship with Him in their lifetime and that the Father would select the very "them" that Jesus pleaded for? How does the traditional christian reconcile this verse and explain away Jesus plea for the "unsaved"? Do they assume that God forgives them and sends them to eternal torment? How do they make it fit........? Was it just kind words to utter by Jesus and His saving power He therefore limited for a select group??
I do not want to build an entire theology on this verse, and thank God I do not have to. There are so many others that support what Jesus wanted and willed to do for all mankind. I guess it makes it so much easier to not have to try and fix people anymore for God and just be His child. Loving, Learning, and Living a life in His plan and not man's.
Some of you may have heard this before in an email or some other circulated junk. It is very common for Christians to create these types of dramas to help manipulate the unsuspecting into believing their message. The interesting thing about it is that it has become a "used car salesmen" type of technique to get the receiver to listen. Somewhere at sometime the message of CHRIST became not good enough. Not powerful enough so they had to add in fear, guilt, and condemnation to create a sense of urgency. It actually goes back to the early church and what to do to control the masses. On you tube you can actually hear the wary screams as many burn for eternity for their bad choices in life. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNopsZkKLhQ
It is just amazing what the mind will do to prove a thing true. The desire to be more than and for people to be less than in an organized fashion is scary! The once persecuted have become the persecutors...
Ok, If you want to stay churchy, fundee or whatever you want to be and send the ten commandments so your teen will understand them, now you can get with the program. This is for you!
Here is what I have been thinking...Off topic a bit, but so is my whole blog if you scroll through it. August of 2007 was a Spiritual Awakening for me through the Heart Change program and a lot of "AHA" moments have been crossing my path ever since. I feel like that journey is taking the course it should at the pace it should, although I would like it to be faster at times. Nonetheless, I am in a pretty good place spiritually, not being satisfied, a bit hungry, questioning the why without fear, finding others that do the same etc...and more importantly, happy when the spiritual is discussed with depth and promise with God's people. So here is my current hang-up...Mind and Body. I feel like I am not even begun to bring them into focus of what I would be content with for myself. The spiritual has helped with the mental at times, so I do not want to disregard any of the benefits from that. I think Albert Einstein said it best. "The world we have created, is a product of our ways of thinking. It cannot be changed until we change those patterns." Albert Einstein He also said that you cannot fix a problem with the same consciousness that created it.
Here is a good article about changing the mind: http://www.marianneclyde.com/change_the_way_you_think.html
When I read an article like this I personally am struck with the thought that I am a victim in my own thinking. I have to blame something or someone! How can I not? The cultural influence, advertising, media, even friends and family with life experiences have instilled many of the models attributed to my thought process. Lets not forget the churches influence and it's fair share of added drama, guilt, blame and shame on top of all that. Bottom line, my way of thinking is directly or indirectly influenced by lies or truth, but for me, mostly lies. So like Sherlok Holmes, I will be spending the rest of my life throwing out what does not fit. "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." I have isolated My mind problems down to three things: I feel disrespected or ineffective or unrecognized. All of those seem to battle one another at any given point or time during the day and reflect a negative attribute probably attributed to a lie that I believe about myself. Enough said- I am on the right track with this and I need to acknowledge it through someone somehow. "Yea therapy" Now to the body_ Athletic,strong, healthy, and able to meet my own expectations. I am sure I have lowered some of them(expectations) over the course of time. But why? I want my new mind and spirit to be comfortable in the earth suit it adorns. I need to feel comfortable in my own skin. Run, Bike, Basketball, Soccer, Volleyball, Water sports etc... I want to enjoy these things the way God would like to enjoy them through me. I see Him as living through me my life experiences. I don't want to look back and say I wish I would have tried...... and Him say, "ME TOO, that would have been fun." Lately I have not had much physical energy to much of anything even if it is fun and exciting for me to do normally. Of course I refer to past normal... My first initiative...A good pair of jogging shoes, a half hour up the street and back by time watch, a limp home and collapse with some sort of ointment and hope that my wife will rub it on me before I pass out in the evening. Wish me luck... PS. Buy stock in absorbine Jr, Ben Gay, Icy Hot, and Band Aid. I here they may be the next big movers. PDR
Have you ever pondered about "My Brother's Keeper" and what that really means? I sure have, but it has always been from the perspective of "big brother" or one that holds the other accountable in some form or fashion. Of course the church authority has taken it way to far and instituted confessions and the like early on in history, to public condemning and even death as the ultimate keeper of faith. Today it is not much different, as accountability groups (which can be helpful)band together to condemn or chastise those with different thoughts towards God and His redeeming Grace and how it plays out personally in their own experiences. Here is the thought process that some of the "churchy" have and don't even realize it. I say this with a fair amount of experience because I thought the same way and had this ingrained in from youth. It goes like this: You have to believe in hell to be saved. Now at the offset I would never admit that, but ultimately believing in hell became a crucial part of Salvation somewhere in the past dark ages. If you tell a "Fundee" that you Love Jesus but do not believe in a hell, their hair starts to stand on end. The church lady comes out and they purse their lips with disdain and disbelief that you have anything to do with Jesus. It is really sad, they have added to the plan of salvation additional performance measures and thought processes to get in the club. Are you in or out of the club? Do you want to be in if the requirement is something more than God intended? PDR
THE BIBLE: Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth.... As a child we were taught that the very letters in the bible meant that very thing. Everything you need to know will be found within the pages of this book.It was not up for question or debate, in fact to do so would place you in a dangerous position of angering the one who could litteraly send you to the hottest depths of hell. Now who would want to do that as a kid?? Of course I learned early on that my grades were a direct reflection of how much I loved Jesus. From that alone I knew that I could never love Him enough to be saved and sunk into a despair that lead me into all sorts of trouble later on. I actually carried that burden in the sub-conscience throughout my entire marriage and all the way up to August of 2007, 35 years later. I also learned to live my life by proxy, through the lives of people within the bible, as if to emulate their direct revelations and experiences as my own. This is where many X-ian leaders lose it for me in the way they teach from the bible. They no longer see God in anything but the black on the white page and forget that it is a story about people's encounter with God and that it is their absolute truth not yours or mine. Our truth is absolute and unfolding right before us each and every day. God is living currently through our lives. We do not need to compare it to other's lives in or out of the bible. Why would we do that to ourself anyway?
Religious exclusivity- The idea that everyone else is wrong or evil or both- is responsible for much pain, angst and violence in the world. When individuals or groups believe there is only one version of truth and that they own it, they twist healthy commitment into arrogance and into what theologians, brand triumphalism. I am not advocating flimsy theological relativism that judges all religious ideas to be of equal value. Nor am I suggesting we avoid a commitment to a religious tradition. But when we do, we MUST not imagine we possess the mind and heart of God.
Legalism is any system, rules, expectations or regulations that promise God's love in return for human effort and obedience. Under the cloak of Christianity legalism offers salvation as a reward for performance. Legalism is a spiritually toxic virus unique to humans, spread by religion, best treated by God's unconditional and amazing grace.
Legalists often place a high premium on commandment keeping and obedience.1 They are extremely zealous for God’s law. The standard that they bear is the Ten Commandments, and they are diligent to point out every misstep in the lives of people they come in contact with. They can also be very diligent in pointing out their own missteps as well. As a result, they can carry around an extraordinary amount of self-imposed guilt. I know. I am a recovering legalist.
Legalism is a Christian heresy that is as old as the church. When God devotes an entire book of the Bible to combating a certain thing you can know for sure that it was, is and will be a problem for the church. That is exactly what God did with the book of Galatians. He devoted an entire book, perhaps the most impassioned book of the Bible -- to combat the heresy of legalism. I can honestly tell you that I used to read Galatians and think, "Hey, Paul, what’s the big deal? After all, isn't it a good thing to want to keep God’s law?" Now I understand what the big deal is. Let's not sugarcoat it. Paul called legalism "a different gospel."2 That is serious business.
A Definition What exactly is legalism? I’ve developed my own simple definition after years of struggling with my own legalistic tendencies. I believe that legalism is trying to attain or maintain rightness (righteousness) with God by human effort. Most of us don’t have a problem with the “attain” part of that definition. We would never tell a lost person that if they try real hard and do all the right things, they can be saved. No way! We say, you’ve got to admit there is nothing that you can do to be saved -- that you are lost without Jesus!
However, here’s where the heresy and perversion of the gospel comes in. Keep in mind that the book of Galatians was not written by Paul to lost people, telling them how to be saved. It was written to people who had already received the Holy Spirit.3 Paul was angry with these baby Christians because they were trying to live out the Christian life by keeping the law!
The heresy of legalism involves telling people that there are certain things that they must do to “maintain” their rightness with God or to achieve victory in the Christian life! Paul says it this way: “After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?” (Galatians 3:3). The victorious Christian life is a gift attainable by allowing the Holy Spirit to live through us by faith!
Peter tells us that, “His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness” (2 Peter 1:3). Isn’t it just like God to give us the victory? Is that not what he did over and over in the Old Testament? “It was not by their sword that they won the land, nor did their arm bring them victory; it was your right hand, your arm, and the light of your face, for you loved them” (Psalms 44:3). Having a great work ethic is a good thing in the world, but it will get you no where in the economy of God’s plan of salvation. He will not share his glory with you or me. He’s paid too high a price to purchase our salvation.
When I came to Christ, my philosophy was, “I’ve accepted Christ, now I’m ready to commit myself to keeping his commandments.” I was really ignorant of how the Christian life is to be lived out -- by faith.4 I thought if I read enough of the Bible and obeyed what I read, that I would achieve victory. Sounds logical doesn’t it? Some of you who are reading this are saying, “What’s wrong with that?” Ever wonder why the Bible talks about obeying or disobeying the gospel?5 How exactly does one obey the Gospel and keep obeying it? The answer is by trusting Christ to live the Christian life through them by the gift of the Holy Spirit that was given to us at salvation. He is indeed “the author and finisher of our faith” (Hebrews 12:2 KJV).
When I was steeped in legalism, struggling was a way of life for me. I was extremely critical of myself and others, and I just could not seem to help myself. I remember telling this to a trusted counselor, and he told me, “You’ve got to learn how to apply grace in your life.” Well, I didn’t know about all this namby-pamby grace and love stuff (To be honest we legalists often begin to squirm in our seats when people talk about God’s love too much). It all smacked of liberalism to me, and I wasn’t sure that I wanted any part of it. Thank God he opened my eyes enough that I took a chance on living by grace. I haven’t been the same since I took that first step!
When I first discovered living the Christian life by grace through faith, it was like a door opened and I began to see the world through different eyes -- eyes full of child-like wonder and awe. Every song that I heard was God’s sonnet of love written to me. Every breeze that I felt on my face was him gently caressing the skin of his beloved child. Every moment of every day began to take on purpose and meaning, and God began to speak to me in ways that he never had before.
Over the history of the Christian church living by grace has been called by various names. Paul called it “walking in the spirit.” Others have called it “the exchanged life,” “the spirit-filled life” “the victorious life” or even more recently, “the gracewalk.”6 In the book of Galatians it is presented as the antithesis of living under the law.
Legalism is bad medicine. If your heart is full of bitterness towards others and self-condemnation, could it be that you have been going about living the Christian life all wrong? If anything that I have said has struck a chord with you, you can be sure that God desperately wants you to be set free from legalism. Let me share with you a remarkable truth. God loves legalists. He hates legalism, but he loves legalists. I believe that one of the most passionate statements in the Bible is Jesus lamenting, heart-broken over the fact that the legalists of his day had rejected him.7
F. F. Bruce, one of the greatest theologians of the twentieth century, said that “Doing the will of God is not a matter of conformity to outward rules but of giving expression to inward love, such as the Spirit begets.”8 The Christian life was never meant to be a life of drudgery, although some of us have made it to be. Jesus said, “I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full” (John 10:10). The Christian life was never meant to be a burden, although some of us have made it to be. Jesus said “my yoke is easy and my burden is light” (Matthew 11:30). The Christian life was meant to be a life of supernatural love, joy and peace that is squelched when we attempt to live under legalism. I confess I have been guilty of that, but God is showing me a better way.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Of course there is nothing wrong with obedience as long as one realizes the only way to live a consistently obedient lifestyle is by letting Christ live through them -- not be focusing on Law. 2 Galatians 1:6 3 Galatians 3:3 4 Galatians 2:20 5 2 Thessalonians 1:8 6 Steve Mcvey, in his book Gracewalk 7 See Matthew 23:37 8 F. F. Bruce. Paul: Apostle of the Heart Set Free. (Grand Rapids: Eerdman’s Publishing Company, 1977) 200.
"God can't reach perfect people with perfect theology. We need cracks in it so the light of God can shine through" AMR
I walked a life with christians, They chatted all the way- But left me none the wiser- for all they had to say- I walked this life with Jesus, and hardly a word said He- But oh the things I learned - When my Saviour walked with me...
THIS MIGHT ACTUALLY BE FUNNY IF IT WEREN'T SO TRUE!!!
It is the month of August, on the shores of the Black Sea . It is raining, and the little town looks totally deserted. It is tough times, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.
Suddenly, a rich tourist comes to town.
He enters the only hotel, lays a 100 Euro note on the reception counter, and goes to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one.
The hotel proprietor takes the 100 Euro note and runs to pay his debt to the butcher.
The Butcher takes the 100 Euro note, and runs to pay his debt to the pig grower.
The pig grower takes the 100 Euro note, and runs to pay his debt to the supplier of his feed and fuel.
The supplier of feed and fuel takes the 100 Euro note and runs to pay his debt to the town's prostitute that in these hard times, gave her "services" on credit.
The hooker runs to the hotel, and pays off her debt with the 100 Euro note to the hotel proprietor to pay for the rooms that she rented when she brought her clients there.
The hotel proprietor then lays the 100 Euro note back on the counter so that the rich tourist will not suspect anything.
At that moment, the rich tourist comes down after inspecting the rooms, and takes his 100 Euro note, after saying that he did not like any of the rooms, and leaves town.
No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now without debt, and looks to the future with a lot of optimism .
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how the United States Government under President BHO and the State of California under Governor Arnold are doing business today and actually in California for a long time already.
